tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7123326368423499292.post3203014033358012713..comments2023-10-08T08:48:18.513-04:00Comments on The Dalai Grandma: Is Suffering Really Optional?Jeanne Desyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07800258273705288582noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7123326368423499292.post-25318792009437335742012-09-07T16:24:27.923-04:002012-09-07T16:24:27.923-04:00Please you, I'm exhausted!Please you, I'm exhausted! Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7123326368423499292.post-2711859100799652792012-09-07T12:14:24.702-04:002012-09-07T12:14:24.702-04:00These thoughts seem brilliant to me. Life is hard...These thoughts seem brilliant to me. Life is hardly bearable without awakening, absolutely true for me, and what I can see of other lives. "Working only to improve our samsaric life is the misstep of ignorance" that cuts like a diamond. That's where all the self-help get-your-focus in-life books go so wrong. That is it. It doesn't matter what's right if the spiritual is all wrong. Are you going to write more about that or am I?Jeanne Desyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07800258273705288582noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7123326368423499292.post-32377187858276077012012-09-07T11:36:04.987-04:002012-09-07T11:36:04.987-04:00I mean life is hardly bearable without awakening. ...I mean life is hardly bearable without awakening. <br /><br />And I think good retreats or significant kensho also lead to suffering as easily as breaking a leg or getting fired from a job- are we pushing or grasping? Christmas and a funeral have equal potential for producing suffering. Working only to improve our samsaric life is the misstep of ignorance. <br /><br />This habitual self is not to be traded for a "enlightened" self, as we'd just have to get rid of that , too. <br /><br />I've never heard of lasting enlightenment either- I've heard of sudden and complete enlightenment for all sentient beings. <br /><br />So if enlightenment isn't optional, then suffering would have to be optional if enlightenment is the opposite of suffering, and that is my serious offering. <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7123326368423499292.post-75320537559601319582012-09-06T22:24:01.989-04:002012-09-06T22:24:01.989-04:00I suspect everyone experiences spasms of enlighten...I suspect everyone experiences spasms of enlightenment - you can see it in people's eyes after they almost die, or someone they loved dearly dies, especially when these things are sudden. Or when they have a good retreat or a significant kensho. But often same old habitual self comes waltzing back in. The comfort of the usual. So you can see I haven't experienced a total, lasting enlightenment, or seen anyone else do that. To continue practicing being awake, vowing over and over - that takes quite an effort.<br /><br />Or was that a serious question? Or do you mean to suggest that life is hardly bearable without awakening? I'd go with that.Jeanne Desyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07800258273705288582noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7123326368423499292.post-15991407437757250552012-09-06T22:05:21.774-04:002012-09-06T22:05:21.774-04:00I had a thought! Do you think enlightenment is opt...I had a thought! Do you think enlightenment is optional? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7123326368423499292.post-17602712094119283912012-09-06T13:55:47.088-04:002012-09-06T13:55:47.088-04:00I know I can make pain worse by fighting it, think...I know I can make pain worse by fighting it, thinking it's unfair, losing perspective. <br /><br />I think about the line, "Greed, hatred, and ignorance rise endlessly; I vow to abandon them." That states straightforwardly that these roots of suffering continue to arise in every one of us. That our vow is to be alert to such thoughts/desires as they arise, and let them pass. I do find for myself that the power of bad habit is very strong, including mental bad habits.Jeanne Desyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07800258273705288582noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7123326368423499292.post-38816360038745199782012-09-06T10:29:28.098-04:002012-09-06T10:29:28.098-04:00Thank you for your reply, your thoughts. For what...Thank you for your reply, your thoughts. For whatever I am feeling particularly open to this topic this morning. One thought I had this morning during zazen is that choosing to suffer or not is kind of like a koan. Kind of like the 4 bodhissatva vows (beings are numberless, I vow to save them, etc). That in essence, yes we can "choose" to suffer or not but because we are human it is inevitable that sometimes we will "choose" to suffer. If it is inevitable does that make it not a choice? Maybe. But we will sometimes choose to suffer throughout the course of the rest of our lives but in the meantime I will keep striving to understand it and lessen it for myself and others. And I do think suffering is different than pain, I need to think more about "how."LuLu3156https://www.blogger.com/profile/13851331908243678310noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7123326368423499292.post-83558323638079412822012-09-06T09:42:24.726-04:002012-09-06T09:42:24.726-04:00Your comment led me to research dukkha a little, w...Your comment led me to research dukkha a little, which showed me that there is a lot to think about here. On the Wikipedia entry I picked up this by Chogyam Trungpa: "Understanding suffering [dukkha] is very important. The practice of meditation is designed not to develop pleasure, but to understand the truth of suffering; and in order to understand the truth of suffering, one also has to understand the truth of awareness. When true awareness takes place, suffering does not exist. Through awareness, suffering is somewhat changed in its perspective. It is not necessarily that you do not suffer, but the haunting quality that fundamentally you are in trouble is removed. It is like removing a splinter. It might hurt, and you might still feel pain, but the basic cause of that pain, the ego, has been removed." <br />There is a lot more in this article alone that I want to think about. Jeanne Desyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07800258273705288582noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7123326368423499292.post-70630602589162868752012-09-06T08:49:55.488-04:002012-09-06T08:49:55.488-04:00It seems like your last paragraph is referring to ...It seems like your last paragraph is referring to "choosing" not to suffer. By accepting pain as inevitable, that sometimes we get down, taking it easy on yourself, etc; accepting all that seems, to me, to be letting go of the suffering through acceptance. Is that possible? I'm still exploring the difference between pain and suffering or what exactly suffering IS. I barely can wrap my head around it. LuLu3156https://www.blogger.com/profile/13851331908243678310noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7123326368423499292.post-30126502910992656752012-09-05T21:23:59.240-04:002012-09-05T21:23:59.240-04:00Yes, I can't disagree with what you say. But. ...Yes, I can't disagree with what you say. But. <br /><br />The best I've come up with for now for the bad days is cultivating the act of witnessing what my body/mind is doing at those times. Physical pain shoots up, perceptions change - when the mood starts to shift upward, it is like *click* a light went on. The room is brighter and the light is more golden. Thoughts become cynical, angry, and so on. The whole person changes in the grip of these chemicals; about all that's left is a certain room off to the side where wisdom says, This too will pass. Jeanne Desyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07800258273705288582noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7123326368423499292.post-4497760415031734402012-09-05T19:48:27.061-04:002012-09-05T19:48:27.061-04:00Temporary or changing seems besides the point; wha...Temporary or changing seems besides the point; what's not impermanent? Maybe Dharmakaya.<br /><br />Suffering is extra. Suffering is the second arrow to strike the Buddha, the one he puts in himself; event he 1st arrow is extra and really the second cause; the first cause is pain. Being a victim is extra. <br /><br />Your experience, my experience, is pain- that will never change. We are of the nature to get sick. Does this mean I sing and dance about it? Nope, no positive trip here. <br /><br />If we do what you suggest- accept pain, sadness, and disappointment- I think that's it! I've never believed that the Buddha didn't feel pain after his awakening and it think it's damaging to the dharma to spread that arhart stuff around...<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7123326368423499292.post-15660450515542840732012-09-05T08:23:45.398-04:002012-09-05T08:23:45.398-04:00So if it's temporary or if it changes, it'...So if it's temporary or if it changes, it's not suffering?Jeanne Desyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07800258273705288582noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7123326368423499292.post-1373284996053469472012-09-05T07:18:33.935-04:002012-09-05T07:18:33.935-04:00Hey Dalai Grandma,
You know I believe suffering ...Hey Dalai Grandma, <br /><br />You know I believe suffering is optional! I'm convinced because ailments and injuries and depressive moods are fickle; sometimes they feel like the end of the world (suffering?) and sometimes they're just there. I think it's the difference between it feeling heavy and feeling light. I think it's the difference between saying this the way it is, and this is the way I think it is. <br /><br />My ups and downs don't often make sense. Buddhist psychology tells me that's okay, that everything I make contact with is a secondary cause...that first cause is this mind. <br /><br />Love, <br /> AJAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7123326368423499292.post-91328490974538417402012-09-02T21:57:52.158-04:002012-09-02T21:57:52.158-04:00You know, when you say something like "you ca...You know, when you say something like "you can't spell check your life" to a writer, they are likely to grab it for themselves. "Current misery..." is enough. I remember a Bible verse, "Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof." Of course, we Buddhists are trying to get it down to the moment. It's always nice to hear from you.<br />Jeanne Desyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07800258273705288582noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7123326368423499292.post-23544420190862756532012-09-02T12:09:51.206-04:002012-09-02T12:09:51.206-04:00I guess you can't spell check your life, which...I guess you can't spell check your life, which leads to a lot of should haves, and painful tie-ins to current misery which is fine enough left alone in its raw state. Why gang up suffering to make a mountain one can never climb?<br />I am glad you shared your long-term drug effects on your body, as I feel like I am the sole survivor of <i>Common Sense Island</i> when I cut all drugs, supposed needed for my stroke and am doing fine considering.Was Oncehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15787588883235992471noreply@blogger.com